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Thread: Shame on women!:Festivals and customs that are made for male chauvinism

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    Senior Member ajtr's Avatar
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    Shame on women!:Festivals and customs that are made for male chauvinism

    Shame on women!

    Even educated women still practice various customs, cultures and traditions that are anti-women.

    Mangalsutra
    A woman wears Mangalsutra, a black beads necklace, for her husband’s health and well-being. Would a man wear a Mangalsutra for his wife’s health and well-being? Hell no!

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    Sindoor

    Married women wear vermilion or Sindoor on the forehead and along the hair parting line. The Sindoor symbolizes the deep respect, devotion and dedication of a Hindu woman to her husband. Would a married man wear Sindoor on his forehead for the same purpose? Hell no!
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    Sankha Pola Loha

    Married women wear bangles: Sankha, Pola and Loha for husband’s health. Did a man ever wear Sankha, Pola, or Loha for his wife’s health? Hell no!

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    Bhai Phota

    ‘Bhai Phota’ is performed by women. They fast and put an auspicious mark with sandal wood paste on their brothers’ foreheads, feed them sweets, give them gifts and pray for their health, happiness and prosperity. Is there a system that a man also fast and put an auspicious mark on his sister’s forehead and pray for her health, happiness and prosperity? Hell no!

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    Karwa Chauth

    People still believe that abstaining from meals, or fasting, can prolong the life of a loved one. Women fast for 24 hours to ensure that their husbands live long lives. Do men do the same for their wives? Hell no!

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    Main tere naseeb ki barish nahi Jo tujh pe baras jaon
    Tujhe taqdeer badalni hogi mujhe panay ke liye....!!!!

    मैं तेरे नसीब की बारिश नहीं जो तुझ पे बरस जाऊं,
    तुझे तकदीर बदलनी होगी मुझे पाने के लिए ....!!!!

    'میں تیرے نصیب کی بارش نہیں جو تجھ پہ برس جاؤں
    تجھے تقدیر بدلنی ہوگی مجھے پانے کے لئے

    "I'm not the rain of your fortune that i'll fall on you.You've to change your fate in order to get me."

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    Senior Member ajtr's Avatar
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    Touching husband’s feet

    A woman bows her head, touches her husband’s feet, takes the dust from the feet and put them on her head on her wedding day to show her submission to her husband. Would a man ever do this? Hell no!

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    Jamai Sasthi or Son-in-law Day

    Jamai Sasthi ritual is celebrated for health and well-being of son-in-law. The son-in-law is invited to a grand celebration in the house of his in-laws. He is served delicious food. Is it possible to have a similar celebration for health and well-being of daughter-in-law? Hell no!

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    There are hundreds of anti-women rituals that Hindu women perform without questioning. It is alarming that women still perform these rituals in the 21st century. Throughout history sane people have made many misogynistic cultures go extinct. But in some countries, patriarchal traditions are celebrated more ceremoniously than ever. You may say only illiterate women do it, women’s education will solve all the problems. But the truth is, educated women perform anti-women patriarchal rituals more perfectly than illiterate women, because educated women have better learning capacity. They learn every small details of patriarchy that illiterate women can not learn.

    Who will fight misogynistic tradition if modern women remain busy practicing it? A few reformist men in the 19th century fought for abolishing Suttee (widow burning), for women’s education, and for widows’ remarriage. In the 21st century, a new set of enlightened revolutionary men is probably needed to save women from the darkness.
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    Main tere naseeb ki barish nahi Jo tujh pe baras jaon
    Tujhe taqdeer badalni hogi mujhe panay ke liye....!!!!

    मैं तेरे नसीब की बारिश नहीं जो तुझ पे बरस जाऊं,
    तुझे तकदीर बदलनी होगी मुझे पाने के लिए ....!!!!

    'میں تیرے نصیب کی بارش نہیں جو تجھ پہ برس جاؤں
    تجھے تقدیر بدلنی ہوگی مجھے پانے کے لئے

    "I'm not the rain of your fortune that i'll fall on you.You've to change your fate in order to get me."

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    Administrator Aryan_B's Avatar
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    when they leave the ring, circus elephants are kept captive at the circus camp just by a chain tied to a small stake buried into the ground. Do they enjoy performing on stage? Do they stay for the food? How can it be possible that a big and powerful animal like an elephant cannot escape from the circus captivity? Told through Stop Motion animation, this thought provoking piece is an inspiration to everyone. The Chained Elephant, based on a short story by the Argentinean psychologist Jorge Bucay, tells us how behind the mystery of the tamed elephant lies an explanation that goes back in time to the elephants first days of life.
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    Senior Member ajtr's Avatar
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    What does it proves is that customs are made to make women ghulam.
    Main tere naseeb ki barish nahi Jo tujh pe baras jaon
    Tujhe taqdeer badalni hogi mujhe panay ke liye....!!!!

    मैं तेरे नसीब की बारिश नहीं जो तुझ पे बरस जाऊं,
    तुझे तकदीर बदलनी होगी मुझे पाने के लिए ....!!!!

    'میں تیرے نصیب کی بارش نہیں جو تجھ پہ برس جاؤں
    تجھے تقدیر بدلنی ہوگی مجھے پانے کے لئے

    "I'm not the rain of your fortune that i'll fall on you.You've to change your fate in order to get me."

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    Administrator Aryan_B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajtr View Post
    What does it proves is that customs are made to make women ghulam.
    I think it's a mental state akin to Stockholm syndrome. I have had discussions with my mum sometimes on such seemingly unfair practices expected of my sisters and I find it amazing that men have succeeded to the point that these unfair practices are accepted and defended by the victims
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    Senior Member ajtr's Avatar
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    And most of times these cultural mal-practices/customs are against women across cultures/religions/societies.It one way to subjugate women where women of the household themselves help men to subjugate rebels.As you said like Stockholm syndrome. Even if woman is highly educated and even earning she has to follow all these customs.
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    Main tere naseeb ki barish nahi Jo tujh pe baras jaon
    Tujhe taqdeer badalni hogi mujhe panay ke liye....!!!!

    मैं तेरे नसीब की बारिश नहीं जो तुझ पे बरस जाऊं,
    तुझे तकदीर बदलनी होगी मुझे पाने के लिए ....!!!!

    'میں تیرے نصیب کی بارش نہیں جو تجھ پہ برس جاؤں
    تجھے تقدیر بدلنی ہوگی مجھے پانے کے لئے

    "I'm not the rain of your fortune that i'll fall on you.You've to change your fate in order to get me."

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    Think Tank Irfan Baloch's Avatar
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    Dear ajtr

    I am leaving the practice of Satti aside just because it provokes some strong reactions from my fellow Indians. so I will point at how the Christians/ West and Muslims fare.


    you might want to know what the "Victorians" expected their women to do for their husbands and how to put up with the "just and justified" demands of their husbands and know their place. the Amish in America also have a very high expectation of their women towards their husbands. have a read at this women's guide that is no older than 1955

    in Arab culture before Islam, women were a commodity, no rights in inheritance, baby girls even buried at birth etc. while there is still enough which is unacceptable by Western standards but Muslims in their defense do point at abolishing some very shocking and inhumane Arab customs towards their women.

    the gender unfairness (I didnt use the word inequality for a reason) will continue I am afraid. even the evolution hasnt been kind in this manner, making male stronger and the woman weaker but having to go through the labor of bearing the child of the male too and take it as a matter of fact.


    this discussion is bound to take us to the feminist movement and all which in my view is another extreme which to me looks like an anti male movement rather than pro woman (its a personal matter of opinion, feel free to disagree). they are even hostile to women who in their own right feel empowered and independent.

    coming back, why festivals, customs and religious ritual are male centric is because thats how we have evolved over time and only recently we (read west) acknowledged that in order to make a meaningful progress in all aspects of a civilization, woman has to be given its due right to break the societal version of the sound barrier. so what you see expect the women's day and all is reminiscent of our past where the goal is to appease and look after the breadwinner i.e. the male.
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    Senior Member Dash's Avatar
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    It is indeed surprising that in an enlightened world of today, such practices are rather encouraged in India. Just see the sops which are famous in India, all the aspects highlighted by ajtr's article are highlighted and even encouraged. I do not understand such a dichotomy when such culturally linked customs are encouraged by main-stream Indian electronic media which also simultaneously is encouraging the independence of women.

    Isn't this a contradiction in preaching and practice.

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    Senior Member Dash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan_B View Post
    I think it's a mental state akin to Stockholm syndrome. I have had discussions with my mum sometimes on such seemingly unfair practices expected of my sisters and I find it amazing that men have succeeded to the point that these unfair practices are accepted and defended by the victims
    Stockholm Syndrome may be a contemporary understanding of societal pressures a person has to undergo. These are ingrained in Indian Hindu psyche since centuries if not much much more. And such aspects are also in many cases related to religious edicts as well - I can't tell how much of this is cultural and how much is religious.

    I do believe that some of these will be left behind as the women get educated and learn to move on. Male chauvinism though may resist reduction in such cultures as well as those ladies who believe in such cultural proclivity.

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    Administrator Aryan_B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ticker View Post
    Stockholm Syndrome may be a contemporary understanding of societal pressures a person has to undergo. These are ingrained in Indian Hindu psyche since centuries if not much much more. And such aspects are also in many cases related to religious edicts as well - I can't tell how much of this is cultural and how much is religious.

    I do believe that some of these will be left behind as the women get educated and learn to move on. Male chauvinism though may resist reduction in such cultures as well as those ladies who believe in such cultural proclivity.
    As John Lennon said "woman is the ****** of the world" some societies and cultures are worse than others but the fact is that even in the UK a country where they pride themselves about women's right according to Amnesty International one in 4 women are victims of domestic violence.

    The reason I mentioned earlier my mother and Stockholm syndrome is that it is a condition that can be reversed by the victims as every person has a mother and if mother's were to teach their children that these practices are unfair it would help. But sadly the condition is so deep rooted and ingrained that victims actually perpetuate it.
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    Member kaykay's Avatar
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    wow some people are taking cheap shots here on a particular religion......to the OP..mam your hatred towards Hindus are known to everyone...and If you are really neutral then you should have consider all bad things for women from all religions.......okay no problem live in your superior society..I am happy being inferior.
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    Senior Member ajtr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irfan Baloch View Post
    Dear ajtr

    I am leaving the practice of Satti aside just because it provokes some strong reactions from my fellow Indians. so I will point at how the Christians/ West and Muslims fare.
    Its not only about sati which thx to british strict implementation of laws and raja ram mohan roy's social awareness movement got eliminated with sporadic last know case to be reported was that of roop kanwar in 1987.Then there are customs related to widows widow remarriage etc.Dowry is again one of those customary mal-practice.


    you might want to know what the "Victorians" expected their women to do for their husbands and how to put up with the "just and justified" demands of their husbands and know their place. the Amish in America also have a very high expectation of their women towards their husbands. have a read at this women's guide that is no older than 1955
    Amish life style i to have seen in pennsylvania and iowa they still live like pre renaissance day people use no machinery etc and wone even if they attend college or univ they come in cloak.Thats why i said its almost same across cultures societies with most customs stacked against women.

    in Arab culture before Islam, women were a commodity, no rights in inheritance, baby girls even buried at birth etc. while there is still enough which is unacceptable by Western standards but Muslims in their defense do point at abolishing some very shocking and inhumane Arab customs towards their women.
    Yes Arabs did abolish burying daughters alive custom etc. but then they to couldnt abolish polygamy(its another way of treating women as commodity),Some of the shariat laws wrt rapes adultery are heavily stacked against women.

    the gender unfairness (I didnt use the word inequality for a reason) will continue I am afraid. even the evolution hasnt been kind in this manner, making male stronger and the woman weaker but having to go through the labor of bearing the child of the male too and take it as a matter of fact.


    this discussion is bound to take us to the feminist movement and all which in my view is another extreme which to me looks like an anti male movement rather than pro woman (its a personal matter of opinion, feel free to disagree). they are even hostile to women who in their own right feel empowered and independent.
    Its not being about feminist movement.Its more to do with fairness in rights and empowerment of women who needs most ie the lower class ones. feminist movement is the time pass hobby of elite class women.

    coming back, why festivals, customs and religious ritual are male centric is because thats how we have evolved over time and only recently we (read west) acknowledged that in order to make a meaningful progress in all aspects of a civilization, woman has to be given its due right to break the societal version of the sound barrier. so what you see expect the women's day and all is reminiscent of our past where the goal is to appease and look after the breadwinner i.e. the male.
    My father use to say those custom s of the past which are not applicable in present age should be done away with.So in past male used to be breadwinner but in present day even women are financially independent or we try to make them independent.So if if wife can fast for her husband for a day then sure man can return the gesture too.
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    Main tere naseeb ki barish nahi Jo tujh pe baras jaon
    Tujhe taqdeer badalni hogi mujhe panay ke liye....!!!!

    मैं तेरे नसीब की बारिश नहीं जो तुझ पे बरस जाऊं,
    तुझे तकदीर बदलनी होगी मुझे पाने के लिए ....!!!!

    'میں تیرے نصیب کی بارش نہیں جو تجھ پہ برس جاؤں
    تجھے تقدیر بدلنی ہوگی مجھے پانے کے لئے

    "I'm not the rain of your fortune that i'll fall on you.You've to change your fate in order to get me."

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    Senior Member Dash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajtr View Post
    And most of times these cultural mal-practices/customs are against women across cultures/religions/societies.It one way to subjugate women where women of the household themselves help men to subjugate rebels.As you said like Stockholm syndrome. Even if woman is highly educated and even earning she has to follow all these customs.
    Interestingly, some of the other more customary and culturally moored aspects have not been mentioned in the piece that you have posted above. For example, the "Nath" a woman wears on the nose. I don't know, but the only related example that comes to my mind is the "Nath" is also forced worn on the animals to control them and make them heel. Did the animal practice emanate earlier or the Nath for woman came later, I don't know, but it clearly identifies the thinking behind such practice.

    Many women wear Nath as a fashion - well, good luck to them. If a fashion trend tends to to voluntarily heel women, male chauvinism rejoices.

  14. #14
    Senior Member ajtr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaykay View Post
    wow some people are taking cheap shots here on a particular religion......to the OP..mam your hatred towards Hindus are known to everyone...and If you are really neutral then you should have consider all bad things for women from all religions.......okay no problem live in your superior society..I am happy being inferior.
    Whats wrong in saying if husband can return the gesture like karwachauth or bhai can return gestures like rakshabandhan an bhai duj.

    As for your assumptions about taking cheap shots or deep seated hatred for hinduism,superior society etc i think you shoots off your mouth too early like loose cannon.
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    Main tere naseeb ki barish nahi Jo tujh pe baras jaon
    Tujhe taqdeer badalni hogi mujhe panay ke liye....!!!!

    मैं तेरे नसीब की बारिश नहीं जो तुझ पे बरस जाऊं,
    तुझे तकदीर बदलनी होगी मुझे पाने के लिए ....!!!!

    'میں تیرے نصیب کی بارش نہیں جو تجھ پہ برس جاؤں
    تجھے تقدیر بدلنی ہوگی مجھے پانے کے لئے

    "I'm not the rain of your fortune that i'll fall on you.You've to change your fate in order to get me."

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    Senior Member Dash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan_B View Post
    As John Lennon said "woman is the ****** of the world" some societies and cultures are worse than others but the fact is that even in the UK a country where they pride themselves about women's right according to Amnesty International one in 4 women are victims of domestic violence.

    The reason I mentioned earlier my mother and Stockholm syndrome is that it is a condition that can be reversed by the victims as every person has a mother and if mother's were to teach their children that these practices are unfair it would help. But sadly the condition is so deep rooted and ingrained that victims actually perpetuate it.
    The amelioration of psychological impacts and tradition and culture ridden practices may have to be dealt with differently. Though for some or many the end may result in Stockholm Syndrome which would certainly require a particularly tendered approach.

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    Member kaykay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajtr View Post
    Whats wrong in saying if husband can return the gesture like karwachauth or bhai can return gestures like rakshabandhan an bhai duj.

    As for your assumptions about taking cheap shots or deep seated hatred for hinduism,superior society etc i think you shoots off your mouth too early like loose cannon.
    well I am sorry i posted in your thread.....go on mam....and by the way who told you that in karwachauth men do not fast for his GF/wife??..I personally did this time for my GF(and I told that to Skull and Bones that day....it's hardly been some days)..not many people but still significant amount of male do that....anyway my last post on the thread...go on with your hatred.....good luck..you can get a few thanks though by bashing hindus here.
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    Senior Member ajtr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ticker View Post
    It is indeed surprising that in an enlightened world of today, such practices are rather encouraged in India. Just see the sops which are famous in India, all the aspects highlighted by ajtr's article are highlighted and even encouraged. I do not understand such a dichotomy when such culturally linked customs are encouraged by main-stream Indian electronic media which also simultaneously is encouraging the independence of women.

    Isn't this a contradiction in preaching and practice.
    Well media will show whats prevailing in society. They are in arena to earn money not to do social service.infact they are mirror to the society.but then there are serials and movies which promote the mordern culture and there are educational serials too like one i remembered from ndtv imagine on girl foeticide and one serial on honor killing etc.
    Main tere naseeb ki barish nahi Jo tujh pe baras jaon
    Tujhe taqdeer badalni hogi mujhe panay ke liye....!!!!

    मैं तेरे नसीब की बारिश नहीं जो तुझ पे बरस जाऊं,
    तुझे तकदीर बदलनी होगी मुझे पाने के लिए ....!!!!

    'میں تیرے نصیب کی بارش نہیں جو تجھ پہ برس جاؤں
    تجھے تقدیر بدلنی ہوگی مجھے پانے کے لئے

    "I'm not the rain of your fortune that i'll fall on you.You've to change your fate in order to get me."

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    Senior Member Dash's Avatar
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    As I mentioned before, what about those women who do not want to change these age old traditions and cultural practices and willfully follow them. There should be some respect for personal views as well. It is almost like wearing a scarf or not to wear one - leave it to the women to decide.

    This aspect may also have to be highlighted alongside the other views. If not, it becomes the same thing - coercive manipulation by both sides.

  19. #19
    Senior Member ajtr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ticker View Post
    As I mentioned before, what about those women who do not want to change these age old traditions and cultural practices and willfully follow them. There should be some respect for personal views as well. It is almost like wearing a scarf or not to wear one - leave it to the women to decide.

    This aspect may also have to be highlighted alongside the other views. If not, it becomes the same thing - coercive manipulation by both sides.
    Its well know fact that to every change resistance comes from inside. ie women resists women from change be it mother or mother in law,sister or sister in law etc.Humans by nature are passive creature they love status quo until the very end and resist any change with full force.Its like a long drawn process to bring in some social change which requires education, changing people mind through awareness if not with force.just like british did with sati custom.they forcefully implemented the laws to coerce people to change.
    Main tere naseeb ki barish nahi Jo tujh pe baras jaon
    Tujhe taqdeer badalni hogi mujhe panay ke liye....!!!!

    मैं तेरे नसीब की बारिश नहीं जो तुझ पे बरस जाऊं,
    तुझे तकदीर बदलनी होगी मुझे पाने के लिए ....!!!!

    'میں تیرے نصیب کی بارش نہیں جو تجھ پہ برس جاؤں
    تجھے تقدیر بدلنی ہوگی مجھے پانے کے لئے

    "I'm not the rain of your fortune that i'll fall on you.You've to change your fate in order to get me."

  20. #20
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    There is a difference between a woman touching her husband's feet and another one burning herself in the funeral pyre of her dead husband. In a similar fashion a monk burns himself to death as a mark of protest is also abhorring and should be stopped. There should always be limits imposed on certain horrific practices.

    However, for practices related to cultural and societal norms, there may always be a choice. The awakening male chauvinist in me tells me, hey what's the harm if 10-15 women touch my feet every now and then - it makes me feel elevated, particularly if the women do it voluntarily.

    Why would you in your desire to change certain innocuous cultural practices, want to impose your will and coerce the female species and kill the innocence in male chauvinism.

    After all: Wajood-e-Zan Se Hy Tasveer-e-Kainat Mein Rang

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